Hi there. Just wanted to let you know about a guest spot I did on Moody Radio’s Open Line last Friday. I’ve done a slew of radio interviews since the release of Reconciliation Blues, but I think I felt most comfortable during this one. Still, I’ve chosen not to listen or watch anything I’ve done after the fact, so (who knows?) I very well could’ve been stinking up the place.
At any rate, you can find a link to the interview here. You’ll hear that I had some problems understanding the argument of one of the early callers. Upon reflection, I think he was trying to make a point about the social construct of race and how we’ve, more or less, invented the exalted notion of “whiteness” in our society. Unfortunately, I wasn’t sharp enough on my feet to make sense of his crayon analogy. I’d love to hear your feedback regarding that caller’s comments and any other issues that were raised during the broadcast.
Ed, thanks for making your interview available. You and your book have quite the buzz going for you on the urban community development blogs and its fun to get a different perspective on your thoughts besides just what you have written.
As I was listening, I cringed when your caller, Renee, casually tossed off their ability to use the words, “yo, wassup” as a sign that her church was making the attempt to reconcile. I’m trying to examine my own reaction and thought you might be interested.
It could be generational. She sounded just like my mom does when she brings home words her 7th graders teach her. I know that at 29 years of age, I’m narrowing the generational gap between me and the mom-jean-wearing women of the world, so you should take “generational” to mean a difference in stations of life. So, it could have been an adolescent reaction to something that reminded me of my parents being embarassing. Years of therapy and that’s a response I just can’t control sometimes. 🙂
It could be regional. I live in Chicago and I bet her statement that she attends a mega-church puts her in the suburbs. One of my character flaws is that I lapse into a sense of cultural superiority over folks that choose the suburban lifestyle over an edgier existence. I’ll own that.
I’m also wondering if it could be a related reaction since I attend a small church that is struggling through the messiness of reconciliation and we can fall into scoffing at the mega-churches.
But I’m also wondering if it isn’t an example of of the Ellis Cose quote read at the beginning of interview: “People do not have to be racist or have any malicious intent in order to make decisions that unfairly harm members of another race. The simply have to do what comes naturally.”
Does casual use or co-opting of traditionally African American urban slang by white suburbanites fall into the “what comes naturally” category or is it simply square?
Rebecca,
Thanks for the peek inside your mind as you process that caller’s words. I included that Ellis Cose quote from “The Rage of a Privileged Class” in my book to underscore the point that what we’re dealing with today in the church oftentimes falls under the category of “racial insensitivity” rather than “racism.”
As far as Renee’s call… You know, I’m a pretty un-cynical (naive?) person most of the time, so I chose to take her at her word. I do believe, however, that sometimes white Christians (and whites in general) can come across as trying too hard when attempting to demonstrate their “open-mindedness” or “cultural awareness.” For instance, check out the story Anita Morgan shares in Chapter 6 of my book. Perhaps this grows out of a sense of white guilt or out of trying to defend oneself against charges of prejudice, racism, etc. In any event, I think we all sometimes fancy ourselves as being more open-minded and culturally aware than we really are.
One thing I do know: If I tried using phrases like “Yo, wassup!” I’d get laughed right out of the room 🙂
Ed,
Enjoyed the broadcast. That first caller? I’m wondering if he was reacting to what you said about assimilating into the white evangelical culture. There’s a bit of an implication in saying that, that it is the prevailing culture. And I guess in many realms of modern Christianity (music and publishing for instance) it probably is.
Rebecca, I found myself reacting almost viscerally to your comments about suburban churches. Mostly because the stereotypes you are thinking of are probably right-on. And I can’t say I like that about suburbia. But I will say that I don’t know of any white suburbanites who have actually tried adopting ethnic slang of any kind (Hispanic, Asian, African-American). “Doing what comes naturally” is different among the people I know. Ed, you could probably speak to that better than I can – I honestly can’t think of what it would be and am afraid of all the times I’ve offended people myself.
(Still waiting for a copy of your book due to a computer mix-up at IV/IVP).
Ed, nice interview and great book. I’ll be using it in an upcoming course at my school.
As to your first caller, he didn’t distinguish his question well, but I think he was saying that since whiteness is an invented notion, we need to have a Christ culture that transcends all colors. If that was his argument, I have a problem with it. I don’t think it is possible. While race and ethnicity submits to Christ, it doesn’t mean that those concepts ought to disappear. Many dominant culture folks (read white) have used the same argument to try to end run around cultural diversity in the church.
Phil
A Musing Mom,
Thanks for sharing your response and thanks for not holding it against me. You said that “doing what comes naturally” is probably different and you were a little afraid of learning how that might be. I think one of the things that I am most fortunate in having are people that tell me when I’m being offensive. It’s taken me a long time to find them and in the opening stages of our relationship I’ve had to coax them into it with much affirmation but it is totally worth it. Hard conversations are nothing to be afraid of. That’s the messiness of reconciliation that everyone keeps talking about. And they are hard. Much cursing and fuming and just plain old hurt feelings take place leading up to them or when I get home from them. But the pay-off is a deeper sense of community with another one of God’s creations. Community is the only desire humans had before the fall in the Garden. It’s worth it to pursue that purity.
Ed, does it bother you that not one of the Borders in Chicago carries your book? I had a gift certificate and everything! Also, I completely agree with you that I am sure that I need to feel more open-minded and culturally aware than I actually am. Besides, open-mindedness and cultural awareness are one thing. Behaving in a way that reflects that knowledge is completely different. I definitely struggle with that.
Rebecca,
At first I was a little upset that the local stores don’t stock the book, but then I realized I have little control over it. My publisher told me that Borders ordered 200 books nationwide, but which stores they stock them in is a mystery to me. I do understand that I’m not a known author and don’t have a track record of big sales, so that has something to do with it. I’m just trusting God that he will get the book to those folks who need to read it. I also know that if enough people request the book (or if it begins to sell well), the stores will start to stock it. In the meantime, I’m grateful for Amazon and the other online sellers.
Ed, thanks for drawing our attention to the interview. Two of the questions/statements the callers made (and your responses) struck me.
The first was the caller who asks why reconciliation is necessary if Christians of all races and ethnicities are all one in Christ. To be honest, I’ve only heard white folks ask this question. I think it is an example of what Shannon Sullivan calls in a book titled _Revealing Whiteness_ , the “unconscioius habits of racial privilege.”
We are all one in Christ, of course, but what Paul calls principalities and powers rupture human relationships, and racism and its hideous expressions of white privilege are certainly some of those principalities and powers. And, frankly, I’m afraid sometimes white folks don’t realize that they (we) are raced beings as well. To read the history of white supremacy in European and American history as the projection of “race” onto those who are not of Euro-American descent is not the whole story.
Speaking for myself, I was in my 20’s before I realized that I was white (and am still making these sorts of discoveries), and what it has meant and means in a North American context. It is something I wrestle with. You are right, Ed, there is more work to be done, and I appreciated your reference to the multiethnic, multiracial vision of John in the book of Revelation.
The second was the caller (orig. from Jamaica) who suggests that until white Christians and white churches own up to whiteness and its history then it will be hard to move forward. I think he’s absolutely right. (I have so much more to say on this point….). I also appreciate that you mentioned several examples of white folks moving forward with this (Promise Keepers, the SBC’s renunciation of its historic racism, Bill Hybels, etc.), and pointed out the diversity of gifts cultures bring to the church, particularly the unsung and unrecognized who work to and for these ends in local churches. Yet, here again, there is still work to be done.
I finally got the book today from Dara…I will start reading it tomorrow.
You gonna help a young, aspiring author get going?
Holla, Pastor C.
He better start reading it tomorrow after he told me that I couldn’t borrow it. 🙂
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