In the late ’90s, my wife and I spent almost four years living in Central Florida, where I was an editor for New Man magazine at Strang Communications. So, it’s been interesting this week to see two of our Florida acquaintances playing significant roles in the events of the just-concluded Democratic National Convention.
Cameron Strang, the founder of Relevant magazine, is the son of Christian publishing pioneer (and my old boss) Stephen Strang. Cameron was set to give the Monday-night benediction but later backed out and suggested a replacement in his friend, Blue Like Jazz author Donald Miller. I think the attention that Cameron received from the national media for not praying at the convention was probably more significant than any closing prayer would have been, since he had opportunities to share his faith and ideas on major TV and radio broadcasts. The drama surrounding his decision to back out of the benediction (and to attend the DNC in the first place) was one of the big religion stories of the week. The bottom line: Barack Obama has struck a major chord with the younger generation of evangelical Christians that Cameron represents.
Then Pastor Joel Hunter had the honor and formidable task of leading the benediction on the closing night of the convention following Obama’s big speech. Joel is the senior pastor of Northland Church in Longwood, Florida, a suburb of Orlando. My wife, Dana, and I attended Northland during our four-year tenure in the Sunshine State. We both came to know Joel as a thoughtful, authentic, and dynamic pastor/preacher who while clearly proclaiming the unadulterated Gospel of Christ also preached compassion, tolerance, and bridge-building to those who do not share our Christian faith. As far as pastors go, I wish I could’ve brought him back to Chicago with us when we moved home.
Joel is a pro-life conservative who wrote an excellent book on the interaction of faith and politics called A New Kind of Conservative (earlier on he had self-published the book with the title Right Wing, Wrong Bird). Anyway, I’m sure Joel also heard from some conservative evangelicals who were upset about his participation in the DNC. And then, last night when he invited the audience to personalize their prayers by closing it in whichever way their faith tradition dictated (albeit Joel’s “In Jesus’ name” was the only closing that the TV audience could actually hear), I turned to my wife and said, “He’s gonna get flak for that one.” But that gracious gesture—and Joel’s confidence that his God is big enough to work through a prayer that respects the various beliefs of a pluralistic audience—is just like the Joel Hunter we remember.
I don’t care about him participating in the DNC if he was to bring an orthodox Christian presence. We can debate politics all day and still share the same faith.
I didn’t hear the prayer, but by what you described in the last paragraph of your post, there is no way I can approve of a Christian inviting people to pray to false gods. God is so big that he doesn’t need someone to be “inclusive” of false beliefs and gods to work in the hearts and minds of men. If you pray to false gods, you’re really praying to demons, and no Christian should invite that.
I’m all for respecting others’ beliefs, but when it comes to worship, and prayer is an act of worship, I guess that’s where my sense of inclusiveness ends. Christians worship with Christians, and other faiths worship with other faiths.
Sometimes our faith precludes us from certain worldy duties.
Sorry Ed, you got me worked up. I’ll calm down now.
If the mission is to influance toward the gospel I am all for it. All though, the closing prayer offered by Dr. Hunter leaves me considerably confused.
The not so subtle message of the prayer was this: There may be only one God but there are many faiths. There are many ways of getting to God, many names for God, many ways to address God, and many ways to connect to God. So, whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist Hindu, or New Age Spiritualist, all prayers end up at the same place and our received and accepted by our all inclusive ecumenical universal inter-faith God.
What other message would a casual listener gather from such a prayer as this? He did not offer his prayer but instead led everyone in a prayer to whomever or whatever God they pray. Maybe I am missing something here but I think this goes way beyond witnessing or being salt and light.
I was an active member of Northland for 20 years, having joined the church not long after Joel arrived. It used to meet in an old skating rink with less than 200 members, we all worked hard on that old building to turn it into a home for the church. I can honestly say that I have never been so disappointed in Joel as I am at this moment. I can’t imagine what he was thinking or his reason for inviting people to pray in their traditions of false gods as if it would be as effective to praying to the only true and living God. This is a dangerous road, and certianly do not want him speaking this way when he represents not only himself up there, but Christ and his church as well. God is a jealous God- He will not share his glory with another- certainly prayers to a false god. I think that Joel won’t be able to unring this bell, but I hope we hear from him soon- I hope that he can see why we are reacting to this in one way or another.
I do not live in the USA and know nothing about Joel Hunter or Northland Church, but I have followed both this post and its comments with great interest. I would like to thank Ed Gilbreath for kindly providing some video on this. Had it not been for the video, I would have acknowledged the points made by previous commenters but made a counterargument to support Hunter – albeit a speculative one – whilst also being a little critical.
This is rendered superflous by the video. I understand Mr Gilbreath’s reasoning vis-a-vis and I appreciate his post. But while I like to think that Joel Hunter meant well, I do agree with the previous arguments that there is but one God – the one who’s self-revelation is found in a sacred text called the Bible – and while reaching out to people of different faiths is important, that was meant to be a prayer to the one true God. I know that not all Christian believers read the Old Testament, but prayer is an act of worship, and God was very specific about His sovereignity. To juxtapose a very specific act of faith in a very specific religious tradition with a clarion call for people to call out to whatever they believed in does not strike me as the most coherent of actions for a person who has made the business of co-labouring with the Triune God to win souls for the Kingdom. Maybe he was desperate to not appear as some kind of fundamentalist – and politically these are very dangerous times. But spiritually, they are even more dangerous, and God did not send His son and give us the gift of the Holy Spirit for us to send mixed messages to the world. However well-intentioned he may have been, that decision to open up the prayer non-specifically was singularly injudicious.
Shame! He seems like a really nice man…!
It is with much hesitation that I jump into this conversation in support of Joel Hunter. I am a regular reader of Ed’s blog and know that his readers can sometimes be very passionate about their beliefs and opinions. However, I don’t see anything particularly wrong with what Joel did. He wasn’t encouraging anyone to pray to false gods. He asked them to end the prayer the way they end their prayers. A prayer ending such as amen, is a way of saying I agree with what has just been said. I don’t feel that he was trying to say anymore than what was said. Maybe we need to be less judgmental and more open minded.
Hm. At risk of sounding like more of pugilist than is in fact the case, I would like to respond to DMG by asking if they looked at the video (the answer may well be yes, but that’s where I’d start).
Hunter did indeed ask the audience to participate in the process of ending the prayer, but that very, very ambiguous word ‘faith’ may be creating some of the issues here.
The first time Hunter uses the word is used is about 40 secs in when he says ‘would those of you who are people of faith join me in asking for God’s help?’ Now, a person who has a faith of some description does not have to be religious. I have learnt that some irreligious people have more actual faith than those who say they believe in God, or even in another god. Sometimes, in the Christian world, what we call ‘faith’ might better be called ‘hope.’ Semantic issues nothwithstanding, I appreciate the need for political sensitivity, but the first question is this: is Hunter inviting those of ‘Christian’ faith to join him in prayer, or is he tendering an invitation to anyone of any faith?
Whichever way you answer that (including rejecting both options), there is an inevitable consequence in terms of how you view the ethos of that whole act of prayer. DMG, you say that you ‘don’t feel that [Hunter] was trying to say anymore than what was said.’ I would like to know exactly what it was that he was saying!
At 2:20, he has stopped the prayer (not everyone’s idea of ideal prayer protocol, but hardly something to start WW III over) to indicate his desire to make the prayer a ‘participatory prayer’ – fine – and then this line: “because we are in a country that is still welcoming people of ALL faiths, I would like all of us to close this prayer in the way YOUR faith tradition would close this prayer.
DMG, if we accept your point that Hunter was not ‘trying to say anymore than what was said’ – then it is cut and dried. ‘All faiths’ means the acceptance that there is more than one faith – which is true. However, there is only one God, which makes the other faiths that subscribe to other gods not-true-gods – aka ‘false gods.’ By then asking them to enter into the spirit of their own faith traditions – which could include everything from Buddhism to paganism – he opened up a Pandora’s box of confusion!
Ed, for the record, I do take the point that Hunter may well have earnestly decided to take that risk at allow God to work it out. Yes, God is big enough to do that, and I am happy to trust that Hunter was sincere and well-intentioned. That does not mean that I have to agree. And the same applies for everyone.
DMG, I would not have bothered to type this response had you not decided to add your final sentence ‘suggesting that we need to be less judgmental and more open minded.’ Why would you suggest that people be more ‘open-minded’ just because they hold an opposing view to your own? I’m new to blogging, but I am not sure that any of the previous comments warranted such a suggestion from you or anyone else, particularly when your own argument is less precisely worded than some of the others and equally subjective!
Ed, it’s all about the video. I don’t know how these things work, but thank you once again for providing it for our greater edification. Anyone reading this – please do read Ed’s post, but do have a look at the vid for yourselves. Otherwise we are in terminal Speculation City!
I see a bigger picture here. I see people realizing we have a big God and a faith that would let us open up our arms to invite them in and except them as they are. We don’t have to do anything else because God is a big God and doesn’t need our help.
In Jesus Name was the Royal Icing on the Cake, the Beginning . The Diamond in the rough. The Name above all names…..King of Kings and Lord of Lords….
Wow. This was discouraging.
I believe the testimonies of others that Pastor Hunter’s ministry has been effective and scriptural over the course of his service. Unfortunately, when you are in the public eye one mistep or in this case poor choice of words can begin to define you. This is unfortunate, but true. And he did choose to accept this opportunity.
That being said, I can not understand a believer encouraging and also validating people praying to other God’s. The scriptures tell us that God is a jealous God. I just can’t imagine the benefit of using a platform that he had been given to suggest/teach a doctrine of inclusion of all faiths.
To bustersdaughter, I would say that God does open His arms and accept anyone as they are, but He demands that we come to Him on HIS terms not on any pathway or religion that we choose. To suggest otherwise is nothing short of heresy.
Hi Ed G., and readers. I was turned on to this blog recently by Dr. Phil Monroe, chair of the counseling program at Biblical Theological Seminary in Philadelphia…and I’m most grateful! I am a therapist myself, and work with damaged, troubled and severely problematic children and youth in residential treatment. With an overarching goal of helping my clients ultimately achieve some reasonably healthy and rational pattern of thinking and behaving, in the initial stages of helping, I must tolerate (and to some degree accommodate) their pathology, so that the therapeutic process is not such a severe shock to their “system” that they rebel and harden and shut down the process. I take the risk in the early stages of therapy, that my not confronting irrational thoughts may be interpreted as affirming them by my clients. Timing and intensity of intervention is everything in the helping effort. I’m not certain delivering an impassioned evangelical prayer would have been properly timed, or even germane, to the “pomp & circumstance” expectations for a grand benediction at such an auspicious occasion. I believe this pastor afforded all an opportunity to choose to Whom (or whom) they were going to address their prayer, while at the same time still clearly declaring his “as for me and my house” by the manner in which he chose to sign off. It seemed respectful and dignified. Had this been another kind of situation, one more intimate and appropriate for evangelical clarity and confrontation, his approach would have been evidence of cowardice and double-mindedness. Wisdom to discern the lay of the land is critical when choosing the intervention…I think he chose acceptably.
Thanks, everyone, for your honest comments. Again, the main reason I took an interest in Joel’s benediction was because of my history with him. I know him to be a compassionate, committed, uncompromising Christian leader who loves God and never hesitates to proclaim the name of Jesus Christ. Because of that, there was no doubt in my mind that he prayed long and hard over how to best lead that DNC gathering in prayer Thursday evening. I can understand why some might be jarred by his instructions at the end, but I sensed he was being very intentional about those words and that his actions were bathed in prayer.
I agree with Judy that prayer is an act of worship—every part of our lives should be an act of worship. That’s why I think it’s important for us, as Christians, to have a bigger imagination regarding how God can work through our words and actions. For Joel (a self-proclaimed conservative Republican) to be leading a prayer at the DNC entailed more than just worshiping in his typical evangelical fashion. I believe he was also there as an ambassador, as a teacher, and as a bridge-builder. This is why I resonate with the comments of DMG, bustersdaughter, and especially Scott K.
Joel made it clear that he was a person who prayed “in Jesus’ name,” but through his gesture of grace and inclusiveness, he was also saying something about who his God (who his Jesus) is: He’s a God who respects the differences of the people in front of him; He’s a God who’s ready to engage you just as you are—there’s no need to radically revamp your language or resign from your previous associations before God will acknowledge you as someone worthy of communicating with; and He’s a God whose ability to reach the hearts and minds of those who do not yet know Him is not limited by whether we do or do not follow the prescribed evangelical formula for witnessing or “taking a stand for truth.”
This is not to say that there aren’t situations where nothing else will do but to clearly and directly explain to folks that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and the only means by which we can have a complete and restored relationship with God the Father. But, as Scott suggests, I think what Joel was doing was just a first step toward opening non-believers’ eyes to the fact that our God is a loving, compassionate, and patient God who calls all people to Himself. I believe seeds were planted with that benediction that could bear much fruit down the line. And I believe that’s where our prayers and energies should be directed, not toward being disappointed in Joel or fearful that what he said at the DNC is somehow going to tell people that it’s okay to worship false gods.
That said, I appreciate this kind of vigorous discussion. This is just my opinion, and please don’t write me off as a heretic. 🙂 In recent times, it’s rare that you see conservative evangelicals being invited to speak at a gathering like the DNC. So, this is fresh territory that we need to learn how to navigate and explore biblically. Thanks again for your heartfelt comments.
I don’t agree with what was done, but I understand exactly where he was coming from, and perhaps he was building a bridge. I don’t know him, but I believe he did what was politically expedient. I agree with Ed’s assessment that he’s saying the Jesus is his God.
But, like it or not that was a man-pleasing compromise, regardless of his intention.
Our problem in the United States is they we have allowed others to define or in some cases undefine what christians should do and be.
Some fundamentalist in the body of Christ are extreme, but there are some good brethren that are fundamentalist. But since the rise of the religious right, Jerry Falwell, and the 9-11-01 fall out we have allowed others redefine what fundamentalist in the body of Christ are about.
The same could be said of evangelicals, or any christian for that matter. I believe that the fear of offending the non-believer has become a higher priority than pleasing God.
We are to be different, salt and light. I’m sensitive to the fact that we are in a pluralistic society, but I won’t let that deter where I am coming from in Christ.
This was done in an appropriate, albeit, awkward, manner. As a Christian we pray to the God of Israel through Jesus by the Spirit. This is the God of all creation but everyone should not be coerced to do so, even for civic or cultural reasons. The best options is to have representatives from various faith traditions pray but this may have been unwieldy and not politically savvy.
Let me stipulate, before my comments, that this is a complex subject – and my simple sentences will not address it fully, and in fact will beg more questions. I will continue to ponder the issue. But this is what I can do at the moment:
Had everyone repeated “in Jesus’ Name” – would they really have been praying in Jesus’ Name? Is “in Jesus’ Name” a magic formula or incantation?
Isn’t praying in the Name of Jesus the act of coming to the Father and telling Him that through faith in His Son, and by virtue of the relationship you have with Him, through the atonement, you are bringing your requests? In other words, is it not simply a vocal expression of the permission granted to us by our Redeemer to use His Name and stand in His righteousness as we approach the Father?
This was a secular forum. If he had not given verbal “permission” for the inevitable: that each person pray in his or her own default setting – he would not have been able to pray – in his case with true power born of a living relationship – in the Name of Jesus.
“In Jesus’ Name” only means something if you are truly praying in Jesus’ Name!
Amen Barby!!!! Couldn’t have said it better… well done my friend!
Grace and Peace,
Joel’s Hunter is a pastor of a large church. His job is to support and pastor his flock and if I am not mistaken lead his flock to Jesus. He is not an evangelist. He represents a church body and what he does and says reflects that church body. There were other ministers and Rabbi’s at the DNC that represented their faith as well. Why Joel Hunter felt the need to represent all faiths as a Christian Pastor is beyond me. You either pray to Jesus or you don’t. Your plan is either powerful in the name of Jesus or it is not. Plan and simple. In this instance he was trying to be politically correct. I don’t remember Jesus trying to be politically correct. Joel Hunter has let his flock down and it is time that the Elders of this large church hold him accountable. That is the Elders job. Now if the Elders believe that Joel Hunter’s job is to accept an invitation to speak at a convention where liberals abound and all candidates believe in abortion then he did his job well. If the Elders believe that Joel Hunter represented Northland Church and its congregation by saying a prayer and asking the people of the DNC to say amen in their own way to their God so that he not offend anyone is representing the beliefs of Northland Community Church then he did his job.
But I for one, did not think that Northland stood for the above principals. But I may be mistaken. It sounds like Joel was trying to appease the masses and not stand firm on his beliefs. I think maybe he is representing the wrong flock and needs to be in the political arena and become an evangelist. The real problem as I see it is whenever a pastor steps out of his area of calling, he gets in trouble. Billy Graham was an evangelist and counseled Presidents. That was a wonderful role for Rev. Graham and he fit well in that area. Joel may need to rethink his calling for he doesn’t seem to reflect his church beliefs and I might add those that pay his salary. But then again – I may be wrong.
Our family has attended Northland for 8 years – but no more. Suzanne said it just as it is – the perception that our pastor represents Northland’s congregation and that we are liberal Christians (oxymoron if you ask me) – it is just not the case. We are confused, hurt and disappointed in Dr. Hunter’s submission to the call of the World over the call of the Word and his milk toast attempt at satisfying both sides of the issue. It simply cannot be done – The way is a narrow road and many will not choose it. Trying to broad-stroke Christianity to satisfty non-believers is to turn your back on the Lord.
My wife and 3 children have attend Northland for the past 5 years. Joels heart is good but there is only ONE faith. We love the ecumenical fellowship with other Christians but as evidenced by his prayer we don’t agree with ecumenical relationships outside of Christianity. Also you cannot respect other people beliefs if you think and know they are wrong. You can love the people but to say you respect their wrong beliefs is sadly misguided. We are seriously thinking of leaving and are saddened by Joel’s words.
I am glad to see people waking up and leaving this “church.”
I recently have moved to Orlando and was told by friends who use to live here to go to Northland. I listened to a sermon and knew that this was not a biblical church.
It is time to realize what Christian means “follower of Christ”
If I am a follower of Christ I should hate sin (repent as when convicted by the Holy Spirit) and desire full submission to my Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus.
Jesus said He was the way the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him. There is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.
Right now there are brothers and sisters in India who are being burned to death for being a Christian and some are having their homes and possesions burned and they don’t deny Christ. Joel Hunter is to ashamed of Christ that oh no he may offend someone at the DNC.
My family has attended Northland for the past 15 years. We have always loved Northland and Joel Hunter. Over the past couple of years, there seems to have been a real shift in Joel’s direction and priorities, which in a word, is heartbreaking. I was convicted the other day that I have not prayed enough for our pastor, who over the years has done such a great job at tending his flock. However, it now seems that Joel has lost HIS WAY! I can’t agree with Suzanne more. It is time for the Elders at Northland to step in. This is potentially disastrous for a church that has a history of healing so many misplaced denominational Christians. I also agree with Rich. Christians around the world are losing their lives for proclaiming Jesus as Lord. Does Joel really believe that global warming is more than the topic of eternity? We all need to pray that he snaps out of this crazy liberal agenda phase that seems to have consumed his attention. Otherwise, the enemy is having a good laugh at the folly of the faithful.
I think the point here isn’t that we all know him personally or even think he is a great guy, in my dealings with him I must say that he is a great guy, but the question isn’t likeability but the TRUTH. Northland is catrgorized as what’s called a contemporary church the word emerging or church growth movement is all combined in one package. Here is the point to consider that a very doctrinally sound and dedicated man named John Macarthur said about such movements, the key focus is the leaders of such movements wants to be LIKED. So upon hearing this video that was the first thing that came to mind, by being opening to all closing gods no one was offended and one must admit then he was liked. Was not Jesus a ROCK of offense, did not Paul offend people yet he wasn’t concerned about being liked, he cared so much about saving them from not going to Hell. I feel lots of the blogs are from people attending Northland, natural you will defend your leader, nothing wrong with such just please consider are we to be so liked in this World? Maybe if anyone is slightly following me to see the links below. better men of God can explain why our church leaders aren’t standing up to traditional truths and want to be liked, the fear of man is a snare and a trap. I have not said anything that isn’t biblical. I truly care and hearing this video and reading this Blog just places something in my Spirit that isn’t right. True what would Jesus do but also what would Paul have done given this opportunity? what would you have done?
http://www.gty.org/Products/AudioLessons/GTY107
http://www.oneplace.com/common/player/oneplace/CustomPlayer.asp?bcd=7/5/2008&url=http://swn.edgeboss.net/real/swn/oneplace/rm/rc/hellsbestkeptsecret.rm&MinTitle=Living+Waters&MinURL=http://www.oneplace.comhttp://www.oneplace.com/ministries/ray_comfort/&MinArchives=&Refresh=&AdsCategory=MINISTRY.RC&media_title=Hell%27s+Best+Kept+Secret&Media_Subtitle=Ray+Comfort&Show_ID=296 and also
I, too have left Northland because of it is not a bible based church. I was surprised how many of us have left. My family and I attended Northland for 7 years but left because it has become Joel Hunter’s platform for power and prestige. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ is not exalted in Northland.
okay, i watched the video….Joel Hunter lowered the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to the same level as all other gods. The elders of Northland should address this…but it seems like all the elders are in awe of Joel Hunter.
This is an old topic but To me it seems he was trying to not be the ” become a Christian or burn in hell” type Christian. Yet be a guy that other people who have other faiths will stop and go ” Wow what kind of man or religion would allow you not to hate me based of a different faith”. Making peope more CURIOUS about our religion and hopefully leading them to reading the Bible and learning about God.
Just my 2 cents.
Leaving Northland Church:
After several years at Northland Church, our family decided to leave as well. There was a struggle with the wonderful worship (band/media), the way Joel delivered the message and Joel’s politics. We tried desperately to stay and stomach what was going on with Joel, but we believed God wanted us elsewhere. We had to come to grips with what God wanted, not the professional worship (band/media) that we wanted.
It was very apparent that Joel was caught up in the political spotlight. I still cannot understand (after listening to his rationalization for nearly a year) even to this day how Joel could support one of the most liberal politicians this country has seen.