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	<title>Comments for Reconciliation Blog</title>
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	<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Twenty Years Gone by Julana</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/twenty-years-gone/#comment-3539</link>
		<dc:creator>Julana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=187#comment-3539</guid>
		<description>Over 20 years ago, I attended our ten year h.s. reunion. It was a square dance held in a local party barn. I remember being surprised at how many classmates had been married, divorced, and were on their second marriage. It was a small country school, and many had to go to the city to find jobs. Gradually, I think more and more found it hard to "go home again," and the reunions got smaller and smaller.

We've also lost a couple classmates too soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over 20 years ago, I attended our ten year h.s. reunion. It was a square dance held in a local party barn. I remember being surprised at how many classmates had been married, divorced, and were on their second marriage. It was a small country school, and many had to go to the city to find jobs. Gradually, I think more and more found it hard to &#8220;go home again,&#8221; and the reunions got smaller and smaller.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve also lost a couple classmates too soon.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tropic Blunder? by aaron</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/tropic-blunder/#comment-3538</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 03:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=180#comment-3538</guid>
		<description>Wow! Joel I don't think I have ever heard it quite said like that. Well done bro! I am still trying to sift through your comment as well as Tyson's. 

I am interested to see where this conversation can go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Joel I don&#8217;t think I have ever heard it quite said like that. Well done bro! I am still trying to sift through your comment as well as Tyson&#8217;s. </p>
<p>I am interested to see where this conversation can go.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tropic Blunder? by joel</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/tropic-blunder/#comment-3537</link>
		<dc:creator>joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=180#comment-3537</guid>
		<description>Tyson said "There is a socially accepted double standard. But should we except that?"

I think the answer is "yes" with some discernment.  

I live in a black neighborhood and love our local Bronzeville Coffee shop, where, until recently I had been one of very few anglo's to patronize.  

It's a very social place, with lots of joking and discussion between patron's and the owner.  (think Barbershop!)  One day I walked in and a guy sitting at the bar talking to the owner/barista looks at me approach, looks back at the owner and says in a LOUD voice, "you got white folks coming up in here?!!" then looks back at me with an incredulous half-smile.  

The owner, who knows me, just laughed.  I looked at him and said. "hey, I live here brother, its my neighborhood too!"  We had a discussion in which I told him about the ministry that I run at which point he looked back at the owner and said LOUDLY, "They takin over the churches too??!!"  after which we all laughed pretty good. 

Now imagine that happening in the reverse racial context. . . . an all white coffee shop with one black guy coming in. Probably not possible without overt racism kicking in.  The history of our country has great inequities that create contexts in which jokes, poking fun and story telling is not done on a level playing field with all participants getting to take the same shots at one another.  .  .   to me that's an acceptable double standard.  

If I as the outsider approach this with a sincere desire to learn rather than a reactionary self-righteousness I can learn a lot.  When I hear someone from a majority culture say "If they can use the "N" word, then why can't I" or "If they can make that joke about us, we should be able to make it too" I hear reactionary self-righteousness which lacks sincerity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyson said &#8220;There is a socially accepted double standard. But should we except that?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the answer is &#8220;yes&#8221; with some discernment.  </p>
<p>I live in a black neighborhood and love our local Bronzeville Coffee shop, where, until recently I had been one of very few anglo&#8217;s to patronize.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very social place, with lots of joking and discussion between patron&#8217;s and the owner.  (think Barbershop!)  One day I walked in and a guy sitting at the bar talking to the owner/barista looks at me approach, looks back at the owner and says in a LOUD voice, &#8220;you got white folks coming up in here?!!&#8221; then looks back at me with an incredulous half-smile.  </p>
<p>The owner, who knows me, just laughed.  I looked at him and said. &#8220;hey, I live here brother, its my neighborhood too!&#8221;  We had a discussion in which I told him about the ministry that I run at which point he looked back at the owner and said LOUDLY, &#8220;They takin over the churches too??!!&#8221;  after which we all laughed pretty good. </p>
<p>Now imagine that happening in the reverse racial context. . . . an all white coffee shop with one black guy coming in. Probably not possible without overt racism kicking in.  The history of our country has great inequities that create contexts in which jokes, poking fun and story telling is not done on a level playing field with all participants getting to take the same shots at one another.  .  .   to me that&#8217;s an acceptable double standard.  </p>
<p>If I as the outsider approach this with a sincere desire to learn rather than a reactionary self-righteousness I can learn a lot.  When I hear someone from a majority culture say &#8220;If they can use the &#8220;N&#8221; word, then why can&#8217;t I&#8221; or &#8220;If they can make that joke about us, we should be able to make it too&#8221; I hear reactionary self-righteousness which lacks sincerity.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Twenty Years Gone by judy75</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/twenty-years-gone/#comment-3536</link>
		<dc:creator>judy75</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=187#comment-3536</guid>
		<description>I'm also the "religious one" in my family so I get to say the prayer before Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also the &#8220;religious one&#8221; in my family so I get to say the prayer before Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Twenty Years Gone by judy75</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/twenty-years-gone/#comment-3535</link>
		<dc:creator>judy75</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=187#comment-3535</guid>
		<description>My fifteen year reunion would be this year... if we were having one.  I went to the ten year reunion and it was a disaster, poorly planned, and the DJ quit his job in the middle of our reunion!  He set up his equipment and we never saw him again, so some people brought CD's they had in their cars, played some very profane music and ended up blowing out one of the speakers.  And we had an open bar with people apparently reliving Friday and Saturday night parties that I was never invited to.

Good Times...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My fifteen year reunion would be this year&#8230; if we were having one.  I went to the ten year reunion and it was a disaster, poorly planned, and the DJ quit his job in the middle of our reunion!  He set up his equipment and we never saw him again, so some people brought CD&#8217;s they had in their cars, played some very profane music and ended up blowing out one of the speakers.  And we had an open bar with people apparently reliving Friday and Saturday night parties that I was never invited to.</p>
<p>Good Times&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tropic Blunder? by Julana</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/tropic-blunder/#comment-3531</link>
		<dc:creator>Julana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=180#comment-3531</guid>
		<description>You're right, Ed. 
We attend a large church that has actively focused on becoming a culturally and racially diverse congregation in the past five years. One Sunday the pastor encouraged the congregation to invite people of a different race than their own over for dinner that week. I'd like to see pastors across the country do this. I'd also like them to encourage people to invite people with disabilities over for a meal in their home. They do have a disability ministry, but I'd like to see that move more into the realm of visible participation and relationship.

The Ohio Dept. of MRDD is currently considering dropping "retardation" from its name, because of the negative connotations. Many of the county boards have dropped it over the past several years. So have many state depts across the country. This is a work in progress.

The "R" word is painful to many of us. I hope to see the day when it can move constructively into the realm of satire, but believe that day is not today!

Thank you for raising the issue here. It is relevant. 
I've heard some state level staff define the term "African violet" as a black woman with a disability. I don't know if there is a discrete  group that self-refers in this way, or what. These women are looked at as having a triple challenge. Members of minority groups and people with disabilities can face some similar social challenges. (And maybe temptations to sense of entitlement. We "walk the line."  :-)

We may share some perspectives resulting from what Bonhoeffer once referred to as "the view from down under." 
I think Nancy Mairs wrote in one of her books that we know many things "normal" people in the dominant culture don't. We've had access to parallel streams of information, so we have increased knowledge/insight.

Sorry so longwinded. If you lived nearby, we could have each other over for dinner.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, Ed.<br />
We attend a large church that has actively focused on becoming a culturally and racially diverse congregation in the past five years. One Sunday the pastor encouraged the congregation to invite people of a different race than their own over for dinner that week. I&#8217;d like to see pastors across the country do this. I&#8217;d also like them to encourage people to invite people with disabilities over for a meal in their home. They do have a disability ministry, but I&#8217;d like to see that move more into the realm of visible participation and relationship.</p>
<p>The Ohio Dept. of MRDD is currently considering dropping &#8220;retardation&#8221; from its name, because of the negative connotations. Many of the county boards have dropped it over the past several years. So have many state depts across the country. This is a work in progress.</p>
<p>The &#8220;R&#8221; word is painful to many of us. I hope to see the day when it can move constructively into the realm of satire, but believe that day is not today!</p>
<p>Thank you for raising the issue here. It is relevant.<br />
I&#8217;ve heard some state level staff define the term &#8220;African violet&#8221; as a black woman with a disability. I don&#8217;t know if there is a discrete  group that self-refers in this way, or what. These women are looked at as having a triple challenge. Members of minority groups and people with disabilities can face some similar social challenges. (And maybe temptations to sense of entitlement. We &#8220;walk the line.&#8221;  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>We may share some perspectives resulting from what Bonhoeffer once referred to as &#8220;the view from down under.&#8221;<br />
I think Nancy Mairs wrote in one of her books that we know many things &#8220;normal&#8221; people in the dominant culture don&#8217;t. We&#8217;ve had access to parallel streams of information, so we have increased knowledge/insight.</p>
<p>Sorry so longwinded. If you lived nearby, we could have each other over for dinner.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Tropic Blunder? by Edward Gilbreath</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/tropic-blunder/#comment-3530</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Gilbreath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=180#comment-3530</guid>
		<description>Julana,

Thanks for your honest feedback. As in so many areas of life, I think it's difficult for us to have true sensitivity or understanding unless we have personal relationships or connections with people from groups or cultures that are different from our own. Relationship is so crucial.

Ed G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julana,</p>
<p>Thanks for your honest feedback. As in so many areas of life, I think it&#8217;s difficult for us to have true sensitivity or understanding unless we have personal relationships or connections with people from groups or cultures that are different from our own. Relationship is so crucial.</p>
<p>Ed G.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tropic Blunder? by Julana</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/tropic-blunder/#comment-3529</link>
		<dc:creator>Julana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=180#comment-3529</guid>
		<description>I am disappointed in the comments here. There are people who won't be sophisticated enough to get the satire, similar to the situation with the New Yorker's satirical cover of Barack and Michelle Obama.
This type of language negative affects many people, including my son, who are not able to speak up and defend themselves.
The National Down Syndrome Society has made a statement in support of its members, protesting the film.

I have been disappointed in the church's lack of awareness and response to needs of people with disabilities ever since my son was born. There is some attempt, but it is arfed by the need. Sometimes it seems like a token. The vast majority of people with disabilities do not attend church, and if you've spent much time with people in that community, it's not hard to see why. 

We do not need this kind of baggage piled on, with the excuse it is art or political commentary.

What happened to not offending your brother? Wake up, people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am disappointed in the comments here. There are people who won&#8217;t be sophisticated enough to get the satire, similar to the situation with the New Yorker&#8217;s satirical cover of Barack and Michelle Obama.<br />
This type of language negative affects many people, including my son, who are not able to speak up and defend themselves.<br />
The National Down Syndrome Society has made a statement in support of its members, protesting the film.</p>
<p>I have been disappointed in the church&#8217;s lack of awareness and response to needs of people with disabilities ever since my son was born. There is some attempt, but it is arfed by the need. Sometimes it seems like a token. The vast majority of people with disabilities do not attend church, and if you&#8217;ve spent much time with people in that community, it&#8217;s not hard to see why. </p>
<p>We do not need this kind of baggage piled on, with the excuse it is art or political commentary.</p>
<p>What happened to not offending your brother? Wake up, people.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tropic Blunder? by Tyson Aschliman</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/tropic-blunder/#comment-3528</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson Aschliman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=180#comment-3528</guid>
		<description>I would tend toward the "we make an exception when the satire is a critique of the real problem" judgment-- thanks Rich... and also, props to Kevin on asking two very intriguing questions, which I would second.  Any legitimate chance to question a socially accepted "double standard" is fine by me...

Yes, there is a double standard.  But should we accept that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would tend toward the &#8220;we make an exception when the satire is a critique of the real problem&#8221; judgment&#8211; thanks Rich&#8230; and also, props to Kevin on asking two very intriguing questions, which I would second.  Any legitimate chance to question a socially accepted &#8220;double standard&#8221; is fine by me&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes, there is a double standard.  But should we accept that?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tropic Blunder? by Julana</title>
		<link>http://edwardg.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/tropic-blunder/#comment-3527</link>
		<dc:creator>Julana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardg.wordpress.com/?p=180#comment-3527</guid>
		<description>I find the use of the word "retarded" in the context offensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the use of the word &#8220;retarded&#8221; in the context offensive.</p>
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