Seeing the news reports today about Rev. Ike’s death reminded me of a post I did a year ago about the pervasiveness of the prosperity gospel in black churches. In the comments section, I got a little push back from a member of T.D. Jakes’s church, which I appreciated. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to engage her in a conversation, and I worried that my post might’ve offended her or others.
Still, I’d be interested in hearing from any brothers or sisters out there who are members of churches that subscribe to a prosperity message. Would you be interested in interacting around some of the questions I asked my guest last year? If so, here they are:
1. Do you feel insulted or offended by the negative theological critiques of the prosperity message? What are these critiques missing?
2. My guest said the term “prosperity” has become something of a cliché. What would be a better term to use?
3. What do folks like me who don’t ”get it” need to understand to get beyond the stereotypes about followers of the prosperity message?
1. Do you feel insulted or offended by the negative theological critiques of the prosperity message? What are these critiques missing?
Absolutely I am offended. The bible states that Jesus wants us to prosper in all things as our soul prospers. Why does that become scary or heresy when that prosperity includes wealth and health?
I am also aware of the racial and class overtones. There is something off about a white middle class man who lives inthe suberbs, who had his college paid for, a good job and great schools – and is a beneficiary of the genocide and theft of this land, plus the same and slavery in Africa, telling (mostly poor whites and minorities) that a part of their theology is wrong, because it seeks a redress of issues related to finances.
Its also sickening because the prosperity gospel has at its roots poor and non-seminary (for the most part) pastors who are from minority communities. Considering how tightly chrisitan doctrines are held and controlled by white, rich, uber educated people – the last thing they want is to lose control of the message or the money.
3. What do folks like me who don’t ”get it” need to understand to get beyond the stereotypes about followers of the prosperity gospel?
Beyond the biblical basis for the Prosperity Message,
unless there is a significant change in economics in this country, that will make up for the challenges of the past, as well as, give equal opportunity to people today (no matter what the cost) the prosperity gospel (the negative parts) will continue. I consider Reverend Ike of this ilk. However, he did something amazing. He showed blacks in america that we can have our own theology, builidngs, education system, charities etc. without white inteference. In a since, he gave us pride and confidence. HIS INMPACT ON BLACK ENTREPENEURSHIP CAN NOT BE UNDERSTATED. Nor can the effect of the harsh racism he taught could only be overcome by only GOD himself.
The truth is, if the prosperity gospel is false, and whites are allowed to hold down people of color and rich people are allowed to hold down poor whites, there is only one option left.
REVOLUTION!!!!!!
In that since you should be happy there is a Prosperity message. If its false – its an opiate,siphoning away money and energy from rebellion. If its true, its creating a new black middle class, filled with people who know GOD loves them and will fight their battles, and will overcome their enemies. It seems to me that that is the heart of the Gospel.
If its true we win (in every way possible) if its false (in any way) we are the worst off of all men for having believed it.
Hope that helps.
i spent most of my adult life in big charismatic churches where the pulpit didn’t really teach ‘prosperity gospel’ or ‘name it and claim it,’ but a lot of people in the pews were leaning that way from exposure to the televangelists and their ilk. for the last three years, i’ve been in a reformed congregation, a PCA church which teaches the purest gospel i’ve ever heard in my life.
i don’t feel there HAS to be a complete disconnect between the two camps. let us teach the pure gospel which focuses on sin and salvation, that is about us entering into God’s story at His invitation and for His glory, not about our agenda or comfort or pleasure. when we do, i believe we will find a life that is not always easy but where our Father graciously cares for His children, including supplying all our needs according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Renee & Becky, thanks so much for your honest comments. And thank you, Renee, for your unique insights. I’m still trying to put it all together and gain a better understanding of the various streams of God’s church. Thanks again.
1. Do you feel insulted or offended by the negative theological critiques of the prosperity message? What are these critiques missing?
—No, not offended. The critiques are usually from judgemental people that just put everybody in the same boat. They rarely consider the integrity that many prosperity ministries have, and the effect of such church, for example, as World Changers in Atlanta, GA. These churches are a blessing to the community not a curse !( By the way, I live in Indiana and have no affiliation, personally, with that church)
2. My guest said the term “prosperity” has become something of a cliché. What would be a better term to use?
–I personally like the term “Prosperity” because it’s a word that really just means success. It doesn’t matter what area of life it might be. God came in the form of Jesus to teach us how to be successful in life, period. The main problem with prosperity is that it deals with results and not just being and looking religious. There is a very simple reason people don’t understand prosperity BECAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW THE SCRIPTURE NOR DO THEY UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF GOD. I was the same way. You have to experience it. Otherwise, you are just another judge helping the devil continue to be “The accuser of the brethren.”
3. What do folks like me who don’t ”get it” need to understand to get beyond the stereotypes about followers of the prosperity message?
–Instead of trying to convince you, I recommend simply acting on it.(Using the scriptures as your reference) Jesus said the only way to know if something is from God or not is to try it. If it’s not illegal or immoral, what do you really have to use. Also, it’s possible that this stream of Christianity simply isn’t for you. Mybe your focus will be on Holliness or something else. Just remember, Please don’t judge what you don’t understand or don’t know about. Leave people alone, if they believe scripture says one thing and you think it says another, just focus on what you can agree on. There is already enough division in the body of Christ and we really need to work together. God Bless !
My neighbors, who are members of a properity church, are the greatest. We live in the inner city and are involved in ministry. They regularly (like every week!) go out and find poorer neighborhoods to share the gospel, hand out food and backpacks and generally act like Christians.
I don’t subscribe to the health and wealth gospel, but knowing how my own theological tradition has been skewered by Christians who don’t understand the theology or have friends within the tradition speak about it, I regard blanket statements about the tradition as reckless.
Careful theological critique, on the other hand, within the bounds of relationship, seems to me to be a good thing.
I also really appreciated my friend Rudy’s comment last year about the tradition: when his son was really ill it was the health and wealth folks who were the TRUE believers that God could and would heal his son. . . and He has.
I also really appreciated my friend Rudy’s comment last year about the tradition: when his son was really ill it was the health and wealth folks who were the TRUE believers that God could and would heal his son. . . and He has.
I too have some reservations about some of the theology of the prosperity movement.
On the other hand, I saw something at church this weekend that most people thought was encouraging, but I was just mad.
A little boy at our church was just diagnosed with stage four osteosarcoma. It’s very aggressive cancer and it’s spread to his lungs.
Our church came together and prayed for him. I just sensed in the prayer a bit of ‘hedging bets’ with , “We know you have our days numbered,’ and asking him to heal the boy ‘if it’s your will.’ I’d rather a prayer of faith for miraculous healing and expecting God to move in a mighty way, anticipating what he’ll do through this situation.
I guess while I’m talking about it, his name is Sam and he’s 8 years old. Please pray for him. Pray for him to be healed and to come out of this whole. They’re thinking about amputating his leg to remove a tumor.
Thanks!
Will do, Judy.
“knowing how my own theological tradition has been skewered by Christians who don’t understand the theology or have friends within the tradition speak about it, I regard blanket statements about the tradition as reckless.”
Joel’s comment makes me think about the story of the blind men and the elephant. when we think we have the whole picture of God, we might do well to remember we are ‘blind’ before His immense weight of glory and that other groups of Christians may own pieces of truth that we have not yet come to. and that we may sound a little foolish to others while proclaiming our own understanding of truth. withint the Body, let us receive one another with charity, for the glory of God.
i guess my question is….how does jesus reflect the kind of success people are talking about in health and wealth type churches?
that’s what confuses me. if god wanted to emphasize it, why didn’t jesus reflect it? his abundance seemed to be of a different kind. spiritual healing, physical healing yes, comfort no. does anyone have any thoughts on this?
I’ve been made redundant Pthc Kds =-D